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Onrie 
Posts: 23
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| 02/10/2007 3:05 AM |
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| My wife and I have been in the business for over 6 years. We have 3 single head SWF machines and 2 home emb. machines. I use Wilcom ES 2006. I do in house digitizing and I usually charge $5.00 per 1,000 stitches for digitizing as a starting point. Sometimes a large design will have over 100,000 stitches but it takes no longer to digitize that one than it does to digitize one with less than 10,000 stitches. I know time is a factor but sometimes it takes longer to get that 4,000 stitch logo right than it does a 20,000 stitch logo. Any suggestions to keep this profitable but fair to our customers? Also, we charge $1.00 per 1,000 stitches for sewing. Some things are more difficult to hoop and sew than others. For instance, suitcases must be supported by a person while it is sewing. This takes that person away from doing other tasks such as hooping, marking etc. We took a beating during Christmas because of this. We have since doubled our minimum price of $6.00 to $12.00 for suitcases. Does anyone have a better plan for pricing to stay competitive?
Onrie |
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v8print
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| 02/10/2007 2:45 PM |
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hi Onrie...
I'm a puncher and don't know what the boss charges for production so i can't help you on the machine side.
We struggled with pricing for a while, and still do really... The good days of price-by-stitchcount just doesn't cut it anymore. A single tatami object used to make you some money, but now it is so easy to create objects, which can also lose you money...
We don't specialize in punching so we dont feel the squeeze of the overseas punchers. Punching is just a value-add to our embroidery production. But we do charge to cover costs and line the pockets a little. Charging 10c per thousand stitches is crazy but some of them do... I know many of them use cracked software, but that aside we found the best pricing was flat rate based on time for the punching. We typically charge $30 per hour, and give them the quote based on that. Our min charge is $30 for setup, because unless they do a deal based on the units embroidered. we figure with design review, punching, cataloging and writing to disk would take up at least 1 hour per design. Over the years i'm pretty good now at guessing how long it will take. By stitch count we can't justify it, as I might do a 5,000 stitch design with crazy detailing that takes me 3 hours to do including sampling and edits. That would be $25 under your model, where as it costs the company around $60 ($20 an hour) to have me sitting there for 3 hours. So we'd quote around $90 for that, but explain it is a once-off setup and that the disk is on file for the next time they return.
I don't know if this is right or not. We don't believe we are losing money, and don't factor paying for the software in just the punching alone. We also factor that into the production but again i'm not sure of the exact prices we charge. I'd also be really interested to hear how others charge.
I noticed when I logged in today there is a pricing article available in the Running your business article list so i'll spend some time reading over that. |
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v8print
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Onrie
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| 02/17/2007 2:23 AM |
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v8print, Thank you for your comments. I read the pricing article also. There are too many varibles when it comes to pricing. I suppose we will keep doing what we have been doing and adjusting as needed, like the suitcases for instance.
Onrie |
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jmason371
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| 04/11/2007 12:00 AM |
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Presently I am working as an independent representative. I am thinking about starting an embroidery and screen printing business. I want to start small an gradually build my business to something manageable. I plan to start with a single head embroidery machine and about a 3 or 4 color printing machine. Is there somewhere I can go to get information about purchasing/leasing equipment,, new or used equipment and all the perepherial equipment, supplies that I will need to get started. Also, I plan to startup in my garage.
Please comment
Johnnie Mason |
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rkhs
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| 09/28/2007 3:12 AM |
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hi onrie,
Hello,
We introduced our self as m/s"neptune digitizing".
We offer premium digitizing services at affordable rate.
Hope our Digitizing/Punching is a suitable solution for your required,
That we become familiar with your products and your industry.
We also want to take the opportunity to help you.
Since we have much background in this industry, still represented a challenge to every new customer.
As a result, your help and guidance proved to be valuable to us.
Indeed,we able to build a better, more cost effective solution for your organization.
Please don’t hesitate to call us if you have questions or if we can be of further assistance.
To know more about us please visit our site"www.neptunedigitizing.com"
We hope we can continue working together into the future.
Sincerely,
rama. |
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ftjj
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| 09/29/2007 6:56 AM |
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Hello,
My name is Ryan Letey and I am an operation manager for Finishing Touch
in Anchorage, Alaska. We have been embroidering everything imaginable
for the last 20 years. In regard to digitizing, I due most of our in
house set-ups. I agree that most people try to charge by stitches,
however this is just not accurate. We mix our own work with some we
have done outside. I have been more than frustrated when I have asked
our outside digitizer to add a fill box to a design and have the price
increase by $10-$20 because of the stitch count. I know as a digitizer
that the work I just asked for took aproximately 4 minutes. Good rates,
huh?
To get to the point, charge for your time and take your time. If you
put out a quality product everytime, people do not question the cost of
getting it done with you. Sure they may have to spend more, but if your
walls are adorned with bueatiful artwork, you can always look them in
the eye and tell them honstly it is worth the cost. We charge around
$40.00/hr to digitize and usually always get it right the first time.
Hopefully this helps you in assesing cost and profits.
As far as starting up a company, look into leasing but keep in mind
that stitch theory has not changed in the last 20 years. We use older
machines, but they produce exellent work. I would love to have a brand
new machine every year but the cost does not justify the benefits of
upgrading. We do not do screen printing in-house so I'm not much help
there. However, I would reccomend focussing on one area of expertise
and then allocate someone else to do what you can't or won't do.
To put it into a McDonald's idea: "Learn how to make hamburgers really
well before you ever make apple pies." You will carve out a niche for
yourself and gather a following in that line. Too many of us are racing
around our shop managing 3 different areas of operations and forgetting
to focus on the one that got us where we are or made us our money. That
is why we advertise ourselves as Embroidery Experts not Advertising
Specialists. Anyone can be a specialist, we are experts.
As far as how many heads, always 4. Have some singles for your
specialty items, and names, but have a 4 head. This will allow you to
fill much larger orders when they stumble into your lap. And larger
orders usually are easier than a single item order. You can add much
more profittablilty this way.
I hope this helps some of you and feel free to reply with anything you
may have picked up over the years, or any disagreements you may have. I
am always open to new thoughts.
Sincerely,
Ryan Letey
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rkhs
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| 09/29/2007 4:14 PM |
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hi ryan,
i completly agree with you,regarding the pricing of digitizing.
but what are the measures of pricing a digitized design as some design take much time with less stitch.
i think,people who want quality,price is not a matter for them but should be reasonable.
rama. |
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ftjj
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| 09/30/2007 7:20 AM |
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Rama,
There is no direct measuring of how much to charge for digitizing. However I have many clients who expect me to perform well and know I will charge them fairly. Several clients give me their credit card number and say, "Just do it" I bill them based on how long it took me to digitize. The latest project took me only 30 minutes, and I billed them $20.00 respectfully. They were pleased with the product and will be back for much more work in the future.
I always tell someone who wants a quote over the phone, "Digitizing may take more time or less time depending on the complexity of your design." By complexity, I am speaking about three key questions. Is it a fill encased in a column stitch? Are there intricate outline stitches? How long will it take me to get it right? Some of these questions you can't simply answer until you dive in. But if you analyze the design based on your time, it always usually works out. There will always be "Trouble Logos." But if you are concise in quoting price you will have enough of a profit built in on 90% of the logos, that the 10% really hard ones don't take to much flesh off your backside.
Bottom line: DON'T Charge per stitch. DO charge by time. If someone doesn't want to pay for superior digitizing send it to India. You will get a decent logo done for next to nothing. But keep into consideration that a cheap digitizer presents you with a product that will look good once it is taken off the machine. That is great, but an excellent digitizer makes the machine run for a full 25 minutes without stopping, save maybe color changes. So the amount you may save in digitizing is out weighed by machine and operator time. If I have a customer want to get things digitized for cheap I will send it out. But I will upcharge on the sewing because I know I will be dealing with a considerable amount of trims. I have no problem getting my digitizing done by someone over seas. But for a local artist, I take my time and make the logo look superb. They deserve the extra attention.
I hope this clarifies things for you, and that you understand where I am coming from. Quality wins over Price, 9 out of 10 times.
Sincerely,
-Ryan Letey
Director of Operation
Finishing Touch & Jacket Junction
(907) 562-0901
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rkhs
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| 09/30/2007 2:06 PM |
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dear ryan,
yes,regular customer who know the quality of digitizing pay by timespent,you not sure till you work out a particular design & if you deliver quality output,you got more works in future.
i also agree with you"Quality wins over Price, 9 out of 10 times" it also save production time from 10% to 20%.you write"If someone doesn't want to pay for superior digitizing send it to India." means quality digitizing only done out side india? or else please clearify.
sincerly,
rama. |
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ftjj
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| 10/02/2007 8:26 AM |
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Rama,
Please don't misunderstand me. I am simply saying that digitizing in
India is cheaper. Simple labor costs is the factor. I can't afford to
sit for 6 hrs on an intricate logo and charge $45.00 for it. I have had
fantastic work done in India and continue to use many companies over
seas to do set-ups.
The difference being, I have no control over the design elements when
some one sends me an expanded format design. I am not the end all be
all of digitizing by any means. I am not a Floriani. But I do like to
look at a design and have the ability to add density in an area, or
simplify thread cuts in another.
Still that being said, If I know someone has a very particular way they
want something done, I will do it. Something will be lost in me
explaining another persons desires to yet another individual. It's
simply a childs game of telephone. Something will be forgot or lost in
the meassage. I do not want to degrade the quality of digitizing in
India. It is fantastic at times. But it is for the limited ability in
controlling elements that I usually prefer to do in-house digitizing.
To summarize, we are artists in an incredibly direct and stipulated
market. I have had incredibly bad digitizing done all over the USA and
would never say that we do beter work in this country. Everyone does
different work. I will never do business with some digitizers, and I
love others. The bottom line is I can only trust my abilities. I know what I am capable of, and am not certain of what I may get if I just randomly choose a digitizing firm.
I hope this clarifies things. I have nothing against digitizing done by
a large company in India or anywhere else. I would love to see how they
are run and study them sometime in the future. But as for knowing that
I will get a good looking design, limited thread cuts, and a smooth
flowing logo: It has been hit or miss in my experience.
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planet_embroidery
Posts: 35
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| 10/04/2007 11:04 AM |
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Its funny those emails i keep getting from overseas digitizing firms...
And being a digitizer myself I pay particular attention to what they display...
And often the designs they use to tout their services are not even well done!
This is what really surprises me.... I.E. that many dont even have inclination or eye to ensure that their "poster pinup" designs are top notch, let alone what they pump out on a daily basis.
I used to assume that because any digitizer can cherry pick designs that are well done from one's catalogue for display purposes ETC that because (I thought) it was a given that anyone would pick awesome designs.... that this would make sample design images bad indicators of the quality of digitizing that you can expect from a company ETC....
But all evidence so far seems to indicate that many simply dont realize their quality is not what they assume it is.
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David Hewitt (Digitizer/Director)
Planet Embroidery (Australia)
web: http://www.planetembroidery.com.au/
email:digitizing@planetembroidery.com.au |
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lendalou
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| 02/24/2008 4:35 AM |
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| is 1.50 per 1000 stitches agood price |
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palenna
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| 03/06/2008 7:12 AM |
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| can anybody tell me what the going rate for sewing is per 1000 stiches in GBP please |
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starwhizz777
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| 03/06/2008 9:27 AM |
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hi
I think most embroiderers are unaware that 80-90% of digitizing software in India and China is pirated,which is why prices are cheap. Nobody that has made the proper investments in their system setups can really charge such low prices.
When u see '24 hour turnaround..20 digitizers on staff' etc..Most dont do the math..Factor in:
Premises..internet connectivity..salaries. Then ,most say you can get your design in any native format..so, that'd mean Pulse /Wilcom/Compucon native formats..how many sets of software would that require? Perhaps 10-12..then theres the graphics software..altogether approx $300k worth of software..then there are the computer systems..and utility bills..In some places, there is more than $1 million worth of contraband in each 'setup' .
Have the people you deal with made any such 'investment'? Commonsense should tell you 'No way'. One can walk into India today,and almost every co would have pirated embroidery software. Sme make the argument that these co's are 'streamlined and efficient' which is why that can charge low prices..but the reality is very different. I have a friend thats in the foreign security services,based in Delhi...and he travels to China..Singapore..Malaysia etc often.and he's done some first hand research for me..so, what I say isnt just something I imagined up..
Hardly anyone cares to know that Chinese operations of such nature are a big part of 'organised crime'..and all the $20's and $15's go into major drug operations that keep the substances flowing into all countries...Nobody looks at where their money is going..all they see is 'cheap prices and quick $$'..but when a kid overdoses..or something similar happens close to home,then people wanna get all heartbroken,and weep..wondering how young lives are being snuffed out...but not realising that its their own money thats helping the syndicates.
This is not to say that nobody has made mistakes in life, or made a wrong move here or there..The difference is, correcting a mindset. If you know youre doing the wrong thing, stop doing it.
Not everyone knows that dealing in India is a lot about backhand cash, and 'white money' ,and the reason why lots of foreigncurrencies now flow there untaxed etc, is because of multiple fraudulent receivers of cash via Western Union, Xoom etc..so,earning non-taxed money also contributes to being able to offer 'cheap' prices. Legitimate businesses in most places are taxed at 35-50% in taxes.
Software companies are also to blame,because they prosecute selectively..The real big fish are many times the bosses of big embroidery operations..but they dont get prosecuted..they get a piddly 'cease and desist' letter..or sometimes nothing at all happens. Software gets all loud, but dont prosecute the big guys, because 'it'll hurt their biz'..
All in all, there are numerous factors that contribute to the downturn in markets ,but maybe the industries will start to reinvent themselves,and maybe some education will help the 2 bit embroidery mongers that hunt for $10-$15 deals on work that takes hours.
Its a matter that infuriates many,and has seen many digitizers go out of business, but things can only change when people begin to learn the realities behind the many dodgy operations. Reality only strikes when someone is a victim of the many facets of organised crime..One might think..'we're just embroiderers..whats cocaine and designer drugs have to do with us?'...thats the simplistic thinking thats allowed the problem to expand. The other part is just plain greed. Its the same reason many people get hooked in scams..
When will people learn?? Maybe never, but it is possible for an industry thats properly educated, to survive. As long as the source of piracy etc is receiving a feed,it'll be around.
Changing things means cutting off that $ feed ..
bye
Nevi |
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Nevi
www.efectpro.com
Digitizing..feel the difference. |
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starwhizz777
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| 03/07/2008 6:57 AM |
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Hello
The stitching price per 1000 stitches will vary from area to area , depending on the economics of that town. You'll need to do some local research on what the average prices are ,and then tailor your own prices.
If you are doing some specific niche embroidery , its possible for you to command higher prices , but if youre doing what others closeby are doing, then you may have to have competitive pricing. You can set yourself apart by doing outstanding work, and become known for what you produce.
The price per 1000 st is a relative thing, so no price you get may fit your needs. You need to create your own formula on average, by considering your thread use/machine speed/power usage/backings used etc..and work out maybe a profitable rate per hour of machine use. If you come up with a formula, then you can always tailor it as you go along, but you will have covered the basic amont that you need to make per hour of machine use, to become profitable.
The number of machine heads you have also influences prices.
You can visit a few local embroidery shops , and try to get price lists,and compare the averages , but there is no set rule for pricing per 1000 stitches.
bye
Nevi
www.efectpro.com |
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Nevi
www.efectpro.com
Digitizing..feel the difference. |
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